Update: Well fuck common sense. 

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 10/19/2018 at 15:25 • Filed to: None

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UPDATE: Obrador’s stupid, illegal, illegitimate “consultation” where around a million people participated has finished with 70% of those who voted opting to throw four billion dollars into the trash and starting from scratch. *Muffled screams*

He insist the new project, which involves retrofitting a military base with two new runways, a new highway and civilian infrastructure , will cost three billion dollars. a significant saving over the 16 billion that the new airport is expected to cost.

Ive probably stressed this enough, but Mexico has a new President. One of his biggest bones to pick is with the New Mexico City airport.

Fun fact: Benito Juarez Airport used to have five landing strips, but three were given away to the communities settling near the aiport

Now, I have to agree with the President Elect on why the new project sucks: it’s very expensive, the land purchases were mostly illegal, and it’s an enviromental risk to an area mostly free of huge slabs of cement.

So, it’s big, it’s stupid, it’s outdated even before going on sale, and it’s expensive but it was kept alive for corporate reasons. Lets call it the Jeep XK of public infrastructure.

It’s also kind of pointless; Mexico has historically relied heavily on a Hub-and-Spoke model that is going away. It’s why Mexico City Airport currently handles a third of all air traffic in Mexico. However, the aviation market is starting to diversify, Cancun already handles 17%, Monterrey handles 7%, and it’s worth keeping in mind that Mexico City airport is mostly a transfer airport for international toursts.

Yes, the current aiport is at maximum capacity, but lets also keep in mind that Mexico has hundreds of modern airports, and as aviation swiches to point to point, I doubt tourists will want to come to Mexico City and then take a transfer to a beach or something. Neither would airlines with smaller, more efficient jets want to pay the astronomical landing fees at Mexico City Airport.

However, the airport is already under construction. All the land they needed to level has been leveled and billions of Pesos have already been invested in this airport. It’s (ironically) emblematic of economic and governatorial stability, it gives foreign investors some piece of mind about investing here, at least compared to other Latin American nations.

So I must dissagree with stoping it. His plan to keep up with the aviation boom is to diversify traffic to Toluca airport (TLC), Queretaro Airport (QRO) and to recondition Santa Lucia Airforce Base (NLU) as a civilan airport serving alongside Mexico City airport.

It’s not uncommon for cities overwhelmed by air traffic to open various airports, Paris, London, and New York City airports are good examples of how airports can co-exist inside cities. He’s also bang on with the diversification of air travel and how everyone is moving away from a hub-and-spoke model. Perhaps its slower here, but jumbo jet sales across the world are down, and if this airport is to serve tourists, well, it makes sense to listen to that.

But stopping this project now is kind of stupid: So much money has been sank in it that Obrador’s plan is likely more expensive than finishing this airport, many organizations in Mexico have said it would wreck havoc with the Mexican Peso and that support for his idea is sort of diminishing.

Yet he’s very stubburn, so he’s sponsoring a national vote on the airport before taking office. People shouldn’t have a say about the airport in my opinion because when they voted for Peña Nieto six years ago they wanted the new airport and it was one of his campaign promises. The public can be shortsighted, which is why key infrastructure decisions require a consistency and thoughtfulness that the voting public doesn’t have. It’s not official either, so our voting rights are not taken into consideration, and it promises blatant fraud given how hastaly organized it is. But it likely doesn’t matter anyway. Obrador will do as he sees fit.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 15:39

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Building a huge airport away from the city that no one wants? I don’t see how that could possibly go wrong

Chariotoflove > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 15:39

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Not related exactly, but it reminds me. Here in Dallas, we had Love Field in the city. DFW airport was built outside the city to handle the growing market, and all the airlines at the time agreed to move operations there.

Fast forward, and Southwest Airlines comes along and sets up shop at Love Field. Buys most of the gates. Business travelers love having to a shorter drive to a smaller airport. Love Field thrives. The other airlines call foul, especially American, the heavyweight in the area. A compromise built into the Wright Amendment in the US congress was struck that allowed Southwest to continue to running flights, but not direct, except to adjacent states.

A few years ago, the Wright Amendment expired, SW was unleashed, and the world didn’t end, like American said it would.

Just Jeepin' > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 15:39

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Lets call it the Jeep XK of public infrastructure.

Hey now, no need to get personal.

(I’m tempted to pick up a cheap Commander for overlanding, but really don’t know much about them.)

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:40

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What would be this “city  that no one wants?” ;)

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:43

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Well, no one wants this city in the winter, to be fair- but it’s pretty nice in the summer. :)

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:44

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Fun fact - Braniff International was the primary force behind the Wright Amendment originally, I believe. Yet it didn’t save that airline...

Also, I hate the fact that it’s called the ‘Wright Amendment’ - always makes me think there’s a connection to Wilbur and Orville, and there isn’t.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:46

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What is that a picture of?

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:47

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That’s fair.  Actually, summer temps can rival the misery in mid-summer Texas sometimes.

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:47

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In this case the current airport was meant to be shut down and turned into public spaces and housing.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 15:48

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Mirabel Airport, Montreal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3%A9al%E2%80%93Mirabel_International_Airport

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:50

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In Montreal? It’s always been nice when I’ve been there in the summer - and miserable in the winter.

Mexico City isn’t bad in the summer, thanks to the altitude.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:51

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Oh I see.

well, Updating NLU is a bit like what they suggested with Miravel, but in the end airports are products of their respective eras: we had a chance in 2012 to grasp the point to point model and people didn't see it through. Now we have to deal with doing the efficient thing (diversifying) or doing the economically responsible thing, keeping the new airport.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:53

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It's filled to the brim with water!

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:53

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Right! (not Wright).  And Love Field still has Tom Braniff Way running through it.

Chariotoflove > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 15:54

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That was supposed to happen to Love Field, too.  Obviously never did.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:54

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More like Wrong Amendment, IMHO

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:55

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So, I had a brain fart and thought we were talking Chicago.  My bad.  I have no idea how hot Montreal gets.

Spanfeller is a twat > Just Jeepin' 10/19/2018 at 15:55

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Annoyed by a Jeep joke? Huh, t he username checks out.

Fun fact Sergio Marchinne said that the XK was “ unfit for human consumption”

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:56

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Well, as is often with populist leaders; Lets see what happens here.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:56

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Weird how a regional/metropolitan issue ever got caught up in the US Congress in the first place.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:57

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Yeah, we get hot/humid in the summer, but then a front rolls through and gives us a break - I think it all lasts longer down by you.

And we use our two airports well enough that some idiot gets the bright idea of building a 3rd airport once in a while - thankfully that talk seems to have died off around 2008/09...

Montreal is pretty near perfect in the summer.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 15:58

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You cou ld never afford the land to build anything close enough to be used by most of the city anyway.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 15:59

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Congresspeople’s local pet projects are always a scam paid for by lobbyists, slapped onto larger bills in order to win approval...

facw > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 16:00

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That’s often the case with old airports, and then it turns out that travelers prefer being close in as opposed to having to trek an hour out to some mega air port in the exburbs.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:03

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O’Hare and Midway are both within the city limits (though O’Hare was annexed later).

There was a lot of talk for a long time about building an airport in Peotone, because the land there was pretty cheap - it was a dumb idea because that’s in the middle of nowhere (think of Denver’s airport but with way worse traffic) . It wasn’t supposed to replace both, either - and I think it was just supposed to be an add-on (maybe replace Midway, long term, I forget).

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 16:03

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Of course.  And the line item veto was struck down, so that’s not changing anytime soon.  Not like that wouldn’t have been perverted too.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:04

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Unlike regular voters, Congresspeople are smart enough to not vote against their own best interests - so good luck getting line item veto or term limits.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:06

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It’s almost as if corporations have a vested interest in something other than the benefit of the general public

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 16:07

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That’s nuts.  I guess the Gary/Hammond/Schererville area would be glad to have it.  Don’t see how many folks in the city would be thrilled, though.  Unless they put a bullet train in to get there.

Spanfeller is a twat > facw 10/19/2018 at 16:08

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The new airport as is being built is still inside the city's metropolitan area. NLU on the other hand is much further away

benjrblant > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:11

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And Southwest is one of the biggest oppositions to high speed rail in Texas because they fear it will cause the world to end.

Or cut  into their stronghold on the region and Hou/Dal transit, cause thats a crummy drive.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:13

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Actually they wouldn’t — Gary has a decent airport already, not far from downtown, with Interstate Access (although the toll is $$$$) that could be expanded if the area really needed it. But that’s in Indiana, so it’s a non-starter for Illinois politicians...

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 10/19/2018 at 16:15

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Wait, that’s a thing?

Chariotoflove > benjrblant 10/19/2018 at 16:17

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True fact.  That drive kills brain cells every time I make it.  I did it last December in the K900 though.  Great way to stretch Genie’s legs.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 16:18

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Point to point is great for domestic service, but you need a hub for international flights- Mexico City is obviously a pretty good location for that.

And IMHO it’s awful when they separate the domestic and international airports (looking at you, Buenos Aires, and to a lesser extent, New York).

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 16:20

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What is?  CdeM?

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 16:21

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Ah, okay.  I get it.  I’ve never been to the Gary airport.   The wife grew up near there, and I should see what she thinks about this  mythical third airport.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 10/19/2018 at 16:23

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I used to drive by it all the time, it’s right on the Toll Road just over the border - so you have to take the Skyway to get there. Don’t know if there’s any airline service there these days or not - they’ve had various fly-by-night operations there over the years.

Seems like the talk about a 3rd airport died after the financial crisis, thankfully.  

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 16:27

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Um, I do not understand the question.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 16:37

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It is true, but Mexico has two important numbers:
1: I t is fucking huge, at two billion square kilometres
2: It’s the sixth most visited country in the world

I think that we do need some hub airports in strategic locations:
Cancun is a good hub for the Yucatan Peninsula
Guadalajara is a good hub for the Lowlands and some Pacific costal destinations
Tijuana is a good hub for the Baja California peninsular area and parts of the north.

The issue with driving so many turists whose ultimate destination isn’t Mexico City into Mexico City is that we are in a Valley, it is a Hot-and-High airport, and it’s very near a densely populated area. This pretty much limits how many approach routes can be made into Mexico City, it intesifies the pollution of the aircraft, and it makes a mistake much more expensive.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 17:56

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There are too damn many people on Earth

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 18:25

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Sorry - stupid Kinja makes it impossible to see what I was responding to.

  It’s filled to the brim with water!

And I wasn’t sure if you were referring to Mexico City or perhaps something else? 

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/19/2018 at 18:26

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No, it is Mexico City. In the summers it rains.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 10/19/2018 at 18:34

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All very true - but it seems to me that when there’s 1 airline that handles most of the traffic, they like to funnel international traffic through 1 hub - even in big countries like Mexico, Australia, and Argentina.

It would be better for travelers to have more hubs, but maybe not better for Aeromexico.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > WilliamsSW 10/20/2018 at 00:34

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Yeah. And then the airlines split up. “ Oh your regional is mostly served by a and b? Good luck trying to find a cheap or convenient  international connection. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 10/20/2018 at 00:39

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I have to disagree that NYC of London are models for having multiple airports. It’s been a pita for 50 years and both have had proposals to consolidate that keep  getting kicked down the road.

Spanfeller is a twat > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/20/2018 at 11:18

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Well, as a tourist it’s probably a pain in the ass. I did research that a transfer between JFK and LGA is around an hour but it’s multiple stops on a metro, similar is true of LHR and LGW. But as a local it’s probably better because you have the “local” airport in Gatwick/La Guardia and the fancy pants airport with Heathrow/JFK. Since La Guardia and Gatwick probably have lower landing fees they could serve more domestic routes which matter to locals. A tourist landing in Heathrow or JFK might want a transfer, but at the same time those airports continue to have domestic routes (albeit, less than before)

And with Paris, there’s a direct train from Orly to CDG, and Eurozone-fast immigration so it’s not a big deal for anyone.

Plus, Mexico City airport has a big disadvantage, it’s a hot and high location, it’s near a population center, and it’s in a valley; in terms of the environment , flexibility of the approach routes, and security it sucks. I suppose there are better ways of handling the tourism around these parts. I suggested to another user that Mexico should probably have four or five hub airports for tourists and take the load off Mexico City airport. While yes: we are the most visited city in the country, the percentage of passengers staying in Mexico City rather than transferring   is still too small to justify such a large airport IMHO.  

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 10/20/2018 at 11:23

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I know, Aeromexico is a blessing/curse. But I think they could diversify a bit more. Mexico right now has three big domestic airlines: Interjet, Volaris, and Aeromexico Connect.

If Aeromexico gave better international service to other cities, Interjet and Volaris could handle the domestic load (which is less profitable anyway, so Aeromexico wins, again. ), also pay lower landing fees, and offer shorter transfers to tourists... I think it’d be a big win.

But this should’ve been discussed six years ago ( it probably was, but clustering in a single airport is less of a logistics issue for the companies) right now debating whether to build it or not  it is pointless.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 11/06/2018 at 22:06

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https://oppositelock.kinja.com/october-2020-1830247884  hey it could be worse